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Learn to Fight Fair

Here’s Dr James Dobson with family talk. Since there’s conflict in every

romantic relationship learning to fight fair just might be the most

important lesson any couple can master you know there’s a real difference

between healthy and unhealthy combat and marriage and everything depends on

the way disagreements are handled in an unstable marriage hostility

is usually meant to hurt and it’s often directed at the soft underbelly

of the partner’s ego with comments like you never do anything right then why

did I marry you in the first place and I think you’re getting more

like your mother every day these words strike at the very heart

of a mate self-worth on the other hand healthy conflict remain centered

on the immediate problem at hand for example it upsets me when you don’t

tell me you’ll be late for dinner or I was embarrassed when he made me look

foolish at the party last night can you hear the difference even though the

subject matter might be equally emotional intense the focus is on the specific

problem in the relationship and not on what you perceive as a basic

personality defect of your mate when couples learn this important distinction

they have the freedom to disagree and work through conflicts with

their dignity still intact to James Dobson with family talk.

Bonding in Marriage

Here’s Dr. James Dobson

with family talk. In marriage as

in courtship, there’s a simple rule

of thumb for animacy. Take your time. Some interesting

research has been done recently on the emotional bonding between husbands

and wives. According to

Dr. Donald joy, a couple bonds most closely when they

move slowly and systematically through

the various stages of animacy during their courtship and

early marriage. When later stages are

reached prematurely, such as when couples kiss passionately

on the first day, or have sexual intercourse shortly thereafter, something precious is lost in the bonding is

short-circuited. The strongest

marriages often occur where couples

have walked slowly and deliberately through the progressive stages

of physical intimacy, saving sexual consummation

for the honeymoon. This concept is

important for singles, but it also has

something to say for married

couples as well. Husbands and

wives often make the mistake of rushing

their intimacy, are taking it for granted. But they also bond together best when

they journey through the steps of intimacy regularly during

their daily lives. Touching, talking,

holding hands, gazing into one

other’s eyes and building memories

are as important to partners in their

midlife years as to rambunctious 20-year-old Soto lovers of all ages, I say slow it down,

make it last. Take your time. Dr. James Dobson

with family talk.

Today’s Black Robe Brigade

Welcome to family

talk with host, psychologist and author in my father, Dr.

James Dobson. I’m Ryan Dobson here with my co-host, Luann crane. Always good to be

here with you and all of our listeners

who carved out time to be

with us today. And Dr. It is Monday, we are all back to the

grind of the ordinary. Well, that work is

going to be done on behalf of family

talk obviously. And today, we have a very provocative program to share with

our listeners. And it has to do with something

as important as censorship of

the church by governmental agencies and particularly the IRS. And we have two very

knowledgeable guests with us who will explain that situation for us. And I hope that, that

every listener will pay close attention

today because it has major implications

for the future. And especially I hope pastors are listening

and they’re not right for a CD and we will send it to you to give to them because the

pastures are the key. They can call us or go to our website our website

as family talk.org. Our phone number

is 87773268 to five or send them a

link to the podcast. Dr. Well, first we’re joined in the studio

today by one of the lawyers who work

side-by-side with our good friend Alan Sears at the Alliance

Defense Fund. Eric Stanley is

senior counsel for ATF’s Kansas City

Regional Service Center. He’s a member

of the bar in three states

and specializes in the pellet law, free speech and

religious liberties as they relate to

constitutional law, just to name a few. Eric, Did I get it right? I think you got it

right. In Iraqi. Don’t look old enough

to be a senior counsel. Lot of experience. I can tell you what

I know a lot about this man from

my friendships. But then they DF and this man knows what

he’s talking about. Also joining

us by phone is another frequent guest on this program,

Dr. Jim Carlo. Dr. Carlo is the

senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan

Church in California. A very courageous pasture. And I tell you what, I have great love and appreciation

for this man. So thank you

both gentlemen for being with us today. Yeah. Eric, I’m on to toss a first

question to you, and it is pretty

straightforward. Pastors are often

intimidated and even bullied when it comes

to moral issues, especially from

behind the Pope it and that has great

relevance to the church. Explain why this

intimidation is occurring. Well, it really all

started back in 1954 from the beginning of America until

950 for pastors could speak about anything that they wanted

from the Pullman. They didn’t have

to worry about a governmental agency breathing down

their neck or trying to censor

their sermons. But in 950 for with the passage of

what we call the Johnson Amendment, named after

Lyndon B Johnson, who was a senator

at the time. And just to give you a very brief snapshot

of how he did that, he was running

for re-election for the US Senate

seat for Texas. And he was being

opposed by two secular non-profit

organizations. They thought

he was soft on communism and didn’t

like his views. And Johnson tried to find some different ways to silence these non-profit

organizations. And he finally

hit on an idea. He showed up on

the floor of the Senate July second, 950 for and he offered

an amendment to an existing tax

overhaul bill that was pending

before the Senate. And that’s what we call the Johnson

amendment. And it basically says that non-profit entities

could not participate in or intervene in any

political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate

for public office. And that included

publishing or distributing

statements. And the legislative

history of the Johnson Amendment is literally

two paragraphs long in the

congressional record. Now, in a day and

age where we have 1000 page bills that are coming out of Congress. That’s pretty

extraordinary. But this

legislative history shows that Johnson

had already grease the wheels behind the scenes with the

sponsor of the tax bill. And it passed unanimously

by a voice vote, and it was added

to the bill. The bill went on to

pass the Senate and went on to pass the House and was signed into law. And suddenly overnight, this bill that was

intended to silence to secular non-profit organizations that

were opposing Johnson’s candidacy

for the Senate was applied to

churches also, because churches occupy the same non-profit status that those secular non-profit

organizations did. And prior to that, there was no such

restriction on them. There was absolutely

no restriction for the first 166 years

of American history, pastor spoke forcefully

from the pulpit. In fact, historians

have said that we owe our independence

and great degree to the moral force

of the pulpit. Pastors have spoken out on the great moral and

social issues of the day. Civil rights, women’s suffrage ending

child labor, all of these things. Pastor spoke freely

on our good friend, David Barton at wall

builders pulled some sermons for

us in the past and history and

talking about how pastures frequently spoke out during

election time. And they spoke out on candidate’s going back to the election of

Thomas Jefferson, which was the architect of the so-called separation

of church and state. Pastors are

speaking out about his candidacy

for president. And we’re saying don’t vote for him or

vote for him. And they didn’t

have to worry about the IRS or anybody

else coming in and threatening their

tax exempt status or in any way trying to

punish or censor them. And it’s been

since 950 for that this cloud of

intimidation and this atmosphere

of fear has pervaded the church to

the point now where pastors back away

from saying anything that might get anywhere close to violating

this line. So it really, it fosters an atmosphere of a lot

of chill on speech, a lot of self-censorship among the pasture it, pastors are just afraid because they don’t know

where the line is. And when attorneys argue over where the line is, which they do,

how are we to expect our pastors to know what’s

right and wrong? Sometimes it

actually didn’t even originate in the whole separation

of church and state debate that

we hear today. This came from someone that was trying

to get elected, that was trying to

silence people and then just got pushed over

on the pastors. Well, that’s right.

And I think it’s important for folks to understand the history of how this came to pass. Because for about two

or three generations now we’ve grown up

in the church and I have to kind of believing that it’s

somehow illegal or on laws that come like a constitutional

amendment has the right. That’s exactly

right. That it’s this assumption

that your pastures shouldn’t talk

about anything, quote, political

from the pulpit. And it never used to be

that way in and only started becoming that way with the Johnson

Amendment. And which was really a politically revenge

motivated bill. Hmmm. How about what

President Johnson did there when he

was a senator? Is that unconstitutional? Because it sure

sounds that way. It is. And for so many years we’ve kind

of believed the lie, so to speak, that this is a law that applies

to churches. But it really is. The more we looked

at it at ADF, we really came to

the conclusion that this is

unconstitutional. It violates not only the free exercise

of religion, it violates the

Establishment Clause because you’re

setting up the IRS as a government agency to come into a pulp

it into sensor. What a pastor says

from the pulpit. You the IRS has

interpreted and enforce this for the

last 57 years now. And they specifically

say that it applies to what a pastor says from the pulpit. And so when you set up a regime where you have the irs coming in to censor a pasture sermon that’s unconstitutional. And certainly, what

we’ve come to believe in witches truth is that the first amendment trumps the Johnson

Amendment. Jim, talk about that

chilling effect that they’re

just mentioned. Seven year history can

make quite an impact. I would like to

fellow pastor who might be supportive

of not speaking out. How’s that working out for you? Here’s our community. Our community is more

or less righteous. Today. Is our preaching, producing less or more results than in the past? The fact is too

many pastures are gripped with

fear or the fear is not ultimately of the IRS that goes deeper

than that. And that is fear

of parishioners who will say, Oh, pasture, You’re just to political will in reality. Because that

cultural myths in the mind of the

Pew Center, the eraser, effectively a very dysfunctional

church. It, the problem is, they don’t

actually recognize what biblical

preaching is like. The early pastures in America that were already referred to by Erik. Preach, three hour-long election sermon January, I’m not advocating

this pasture. Try a three hour one that will work very well. But the fact that a pasture would weigh

in on these issues, and I personally am

convinced I look at a little bit different

than my friend Eric. Eric looked at as

an attorney to legal lands and he’s

right to do that. I look at it through

the spiritual lands that we

will not have the next greatest

spiritual awakening in destination until the

puppets are free. This is a spiritual issue in Isaiah chapter 58. We need a fast to

break the yoke of fear and the cultural

myth off the pulpit. And also piu that has

really been put on us from 1954 to the

present with a straw. I’m Dr. Carlo, I’ve heard recently

that what you’re talking about really

is living out the scripture

that says love your neighbor as yourself

from the pulpit. Because if you’re a

pastor and you say, I love the people

around me, well then I want them to have the best opportunity to grow up and the

best environment for them to have

healthy families that will allow me to

speak in their lives, to teach them about Jesus. And the pastors

that aren’t talking about the

issues that are destroying families, they’re destroying

communities. They’re wrecking

Holmes clearly aren’t loving their

neighbours as themselves, could not be dated better than what

you get out. What really occurred

is remarkable. We were given. That was his seizures given to God, that

which is God. But I like the last line of the Manhattan

declaration, written by Robby George, the Catholic out of

Princeton University and Timothy George, the Dean of the

Divinity School at Stanford University in Birmingham, Alabama. The last line of

it is as follows. We will fully and

on grudgingly render to Caesar

what is seizures. But under no

circumstances will we render to Caesar

what is God? Now what had

happened is that line of what belongs to Caesar had been pushed over and over into that, which is God. Just

think for a minute. 50 years ago, if we were to shed during up a baby in the womb is wrong. Everybody was said yes. But now if you it ball but you’re considered

to be political. 30 years ago,

if we just set the practice of

homosexuality is a fan. Everybody was said yes. But now if you

say that Nepal, but now you’re being

too political. Ten years ago we

would’ve said marriage if a

man and a woman. Now if you say that Nepal, but you’re considered to be too political leader has moved in and the

result it a killing, violating impact on

pastures that had a catastrophic results

in our communities, our families and

on individuals. Just a garlands

will address that sense there

right now, who says that you

have no idea? I asked Democrats,

republicans, libertarians, independents in

my congregation as I speak out on this, my whole congregation

will divide. Well, I’d say number

one, probably all of us, most of us have people of all political ideology

than our congregation. The fact is that we’re

not committed to, any of them were

not Republican, Democrat, Independent

or anything else. We were fiercely committed

to biblical truth. What God’s word says, we must speak out on, imagine if you would, the pastures back before the Civil War

saying I can’t speak out on slavery because it would split

my congregation. The irony is that

exactly what some congregations

that and what they did and what pasture said in that timeframe. Now how do we look at

those kind of people? They sold out

on the word of God because of

political expediency. If they had it

versus truth, they chose, they chose

piece over truth. And how do we view them? I’m a part of a very

small denomination called a westerly

denomination. That Wesleyan denomination

was formed for the purpose of freeing the slaves from the south. And I spoke out

on the women’s right to vote issue, that the first

women’s right to vote Conference

was held out. What planned church

in Seneca Falls, New York and 840 gate. I can’t imagine today some pastures saying How dare pastoral

ancestors which speak out on these

political issues, a flavor out there

that can speak out on political issues like women’s right to vote. But they did because

it was morally, biblically right. And so a pastor who’s

fiercely committed a scripture is not looking to be a

weather vane. What in the world is

being fed from the Pew? He’s looking to the

Word of God to speak for God and to the culture in which

we find ourselves. Yeah, Jim, you’re

not primarily urging pastors to endorse political

candidates, right? That’s not what your, uh, your Aster mean. It may involve the

freedom to do that. But there’s a much

larger issue here. Yeah, it has to do with endorsing what God says. And God’s word

is crystal clear that the destruction

of a baby in the womb, if an animal and

horrific act. That being the

case, it is totally appropriate based up not only on biblical

authority, but our constitutional

freedoms, freedom of speech and

freedom of religion. Based upon the

First Amendment, any pastor has

the legal right to say anything he or

she wants from Nepal, but including to

say the following. For example, the

following candidates band on the

following issues. Abortion, definition

of marriage, issues of national

debt, et cetera. The scripture would teach them about those

following issues. Based upon that, as followers of Jesus Christ, fully devoted followers

of Jesus Christ, we would want

to lift up and exalt over our

nation those who would be the best

representation of what God has ordained for national

and community life. That every pastor

should have the legal right to do. Eric, should this battle they’ve sought out as a

constitutional issue. You’re an attorney,

obviously, you’re thinking

in those terms. So this eventually wind up before the

Supreme Court. Well, we think it should, because initially when this Johnson

Amendment was passed and it was

inserted into the IRS code in 950. For those

constitutional issues were never addressed. They were never debated. This past without any

legislative analysis. There was no

committee hearings. There was no attempt to discover how this would affect the

constitutional rights of pastors and churches. Am I correct in saying

that the IRS has never successfully taken away the non-profit status

from a church. Yeah, that’s a

correct statement. The IRS has only in

one reported case, revoked the tax exempt

letter of a church, which is different than the status of a church. Under the IRS code, churches do not need a tax exempt letter from the IRS to be

considered exempt. They’re automatically

exempt. They occupy that status simply because

they are a church. And that’s a nod

that Congress gave to the constitutional

freedoms of churches. They don’t want

churches to have to register with the government

in order to be considered tax exempt. And so churches

occupy that status. That status has never been taken away by the IRS. Some churches do

get a letter from the IRS saying that

they are tax exempt, but it’s not

necessary to do that. And the one case where that tax exempt letter was taken away

from a church, the church

actually went way, way, way out of bounds, put a full-page ad

in the USA today, urging Christians

to vote against a particular candidate

for president, and solicited funds to

help pay for the ad. Never argue that

that was part of their free

exercise of religion was when the that

was reinstated and the letter

was reinstated. The church never had

to pay any penalties or taxes as a

result, really. Alright, we’ve got about three or four

minutes left and we need to talk

about what people can do about this, said, Jim, weigh

in on that. What are you planning? Over? The second is extremely important day for America, for American Christianity, that they are

political freedom. We encourage people

to go to Pulpit Freedom.comma. What happened is

the ADF and AD FS over 2 thousand

Allied Attorney. Thank God for Eric

who you have on there and many others

just like him, who are willing

to defend us as pastors pro bono to stand on our

biblical authority and our constitutional

rights. The result is the ADF encourage a group

of pastors, small select group and 2008 to speak out boldly, they would in

their sermons actually challenged, by virtue of the

content of sermons, challenge the

Johnson amendment. They tape

recorded them and they sent them to the IRS. Thirty-three

pastors did that. Nothing happened

in 2009 AT for pasture to do

the same thing. Nothing happened in 20 CAN 100 pastures

did the same thing. Nothing happen. This year. We would like to

see a minimum of 500 to 1000 or more. Pastures do the

same thing. And people can earn their pastures to be bold. And I want to

encourage people to do that because if

a pastor speak, shout, be assured there’s one or two or three

or four people who are going to stay

in that congregation. I’m going to leave and go to some other church and take my tie,

check with me. And that intimidates

pastures. So if you have a pasture

really willing to speak out and

stand with him, encourage him,

by all means, pasture our

curriculum to go to Pulpit Freedom.com. There’s a one-minute

video clip people going to watch as a

place to sign up. And then we have webinars will be listed there

as well in the future, taking place each

Wednesday for pastures and Christian leaders

across America. So they can be

more informed about how to re-establish their religious

liberties that people knew in this

country before 1954. It’s Pulpit

Freedom.com and Dr. Karla will also have links to that

information at Sammy talk.org and eats. We are trained at

literally hundreds of testers will be encouraged to

get involved. And if we do not

take action, we will kinda

quickly like Canada, they want a friend of mine flew up there to preach. A week on services. Formed as he

went up there do not mentioned the

word homosexuality. Do not mentioned

the word Islam. And before long, I

suspect you will not be able to actually

define marriage. What’s ironic in this Dr. Dobson is what we’re

talking about, freedom and pop, it

applies to all pastures. They would apply to conservative

Biblical pastures, as well as we

would apply it actually to

liberal bastion. It would apply to any

faster by virtue of our constitutional protections of the

First Amendment. But on a deeper

issue with me, I want to restate

what I said earlier. I believe a

spiritual awakening that we all long for will not occur in America until a number of ingredients

come together. And one of those is an emboldening

corporate America. Dr. Carlo, I’ve experienced

that firsthand. I was in Canada not

too many months ago. And as I was going

through customs, they said, are you here

for work or pleasure? I said I’m here for

work and they said, What do you do? And I said I’m

a speaker in the customs agent

looked at me funny and she said, What are you here

to speak on? I said, Oh, I’m here

on the sanctity of human life and a

pro-life event. And she said, Are

we going to have any problems from you? And I was done. It did never dawned on me. I said No, not at all. And she goes,

Are you sure Is there going to

be a protest? I said No, there’s

no protest. This is totally peaceful. And I got question for quite some

time at customs based on my belief in the sanctity

of human life. And it was a

sock and I saw this not happen

in America, but that’s where

we’re heading. If we’re not careful,

I wish we could give pastures who

are willing to stand up an award. I would call

to Jonas Clark award one year ago, David Martin and

I did a 12 day two are called

the Next Great Awakening tour of Boston, New York, Philadelphia,

Washington DC, Harvard, Yale,

Princeton, et cetera. But the highlighted

a whole trip for me is only drove by

and Lexington, Massachusetts, the

home of Jonas Clark. He was the pasture or Paul Revere was

writing the night of the famous Midnight Ride and read the news

trying to get there. You want to get there

before the British were coming district

the destroys, the kill or get rid of. Clark, why the pastures in America we’re speaking

truth and freedom, and boldness and

righteousness and the enemy, the truth and freedom

wanted to stop that. Took Paul Revere to try to get there TO warn him. I wish we could give a

Jonas Clark award for every pastor

who’s willing to stand up in such a way. And so being the

enemies of truth and freedom will certainly

come after us. But it’s worth standing

for the truth of God as one is

called by God. Jim, just very

quick glazed. Explain what the black robe

regiment was like. Has that played

a major role in the Revolutionary War? Oh, it did. And

accuse right off of this Jonas Clark

sto

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